Hi,
In Flink 1.5 we have introduced Credit-based Flow Control [1] in the network stack. Back then we were aware about potential downsides of it [2] and we decided to keep the old model in the code base ( configurable by setting `taskmanager.network.credit-model: false` ). Now, that we are about to modify internals of the network stack again [3], it might be a good time to clean up the code and remove the older code paths. Is anyone still using the non default non Credit-based model ( `taskmanager.network.credit-model: false`)? If so, why? Piotrek [1] https://flink.apache.org/2019/06/05/flink-network-stack.html <https://flink.apache.org/2019/06/05/flink-network-stack.html> [2] https://flink.apache.org/2019/06/05/flink-network-stack.html#what-do-we-gain-where-is-the-catch <https://flink.apache.org/2019/06/05/flink-network-stack.html#what-do-we-gain-where-is-the-catch> [3] https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/a2b58b7b2b24b9bd4814b2aa51d2fc44b08a919eddbb5b1256be5b6a@%3Cdev.flink.apache.org%3E <https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/a2b58b7b2b24b9bd4814b2aa51d2fc44b08a919eddbb5b1256be5b6a@%3Cdev.flink.apache.org%3E> |
Thanks for bringing this survey Piotr.
Actually I was also trying to dropping the non credit-based code path from release-1.9, and now I think it is the proper time to do it motivated by [3]. The credit-based mode is as default from Flink 1.5 and it has been verified to be stable and reliable in many versions. In Alibaba we are always using the default credit-based mode in all products. It can reduce much overhead of maintaining non credit-based code path, so +1 from my side to drop it. Best, Zhijiang ------------------------------------------------------------------ From:Piotr Nowojski <[hidden email]> Send Time:2019年10月2日(星期三) 17:01 To:dev <[hidden email]> Subject:[SURVEY] Dropping non Credit-based Flow Control Hi, In Flink 1.5 we have introduced Credit-based Flow Control [1] in the network stack. Back then we were aware about potential downsides of it [2] and we decided to keep the old model in the code base ( configurable by setting `taskmanager.network.credit-model: false` ). Now, that we are about to modify internals of the network stack again [3], it might be a good time to clean up the code and remove the older code paths. Is anyone still using the non default non Credit-based model ( `taskmanager.network.credit-model: false`)? If so, why? Piotrek [1] https://flink.apache.org/2019/06/05/flink-network-stack.html <https://flink.apache.org/2019/06/05/flink-network-stack.html> [2] https://flink.apache.org/2019/06/05/flink-network-stack.html#what-do-we-gain-where-is-the-catch <https://flink.apache.org/2019/06/05/flink-network-stack.html#what-do-we-gain-where-is-the-catch> [3] https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/a2b58b7b2b24b9bd4814b2aa51d2fc44b08a919eddbb5b1256be5b6a@%3Cdev.flink.apache.org%3E <https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/a2b58b7b2b24b9bd4814b2aa51d2fc44b08a919eddbb5b1256be5b6a@%3Cdev.flink.apache.org%3E> |
Thanks for start this survey, Piotr.
We have benefitted from credit-based flow control a lot. I can't figure out a reason to use non credit-based model. I think we have kept the older code paths long enough (1.5 -> 1.9). That's a big burden to maintain. Especially there are a lot duplicated codes between credit-based and non credit-based model. So +1 to do the cleanup. Thanks, Biao /'bɪ.aʊ/ On Thu, 10 Oct 2019 at 11:15, zhijiang <[hidden email]> wrote: > Thanks for bringing this survey Piotr. > > Actually I was also trying to dropping the non credit-based code path from > release-1.9, and now I think it is the proper time to do it motivated by > [3]. > The credit-based mode is as default from Flink 1.5 and it has been > verified to be stable and reliable in many versions. In Alibaba we are > always using the default credit-based mode in all products. > It can reduce much overhead of maintaining non credit-based code path, so > +1 from my side to drop it. > > Best, > Zhijiang > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > From:Piotr Nowojski <[hidden email]> > Send Time:2019年10月2日(星期三) 17:01 > To:dev <[hidden email]> > Subject:[SURVEY] Dropping non Credit-based Flow Control > > Hi, > > In Flink 1.5 we have introduced Credit-based Flow Control [1] in the > network stack. Back then we were aware about potential downsides of it [2] > and we decided to keep the old model in the code base ( configurable by > setting `taskmanager.network.credit-model: false` ). Now, that we are > about to modify internals of the network stack again [3], it might be a > good time to clean up the code and remove the older code paths. > > Is anyone still using the non default non Credit-based model ( > `taskmanager.network.credit-model: false`)? If so, why? > > Piotrek > > [1] https://flink.apache.org/2019/06/05/flink-network-stack.html < > https://flink.apache.org/2019/06/05/flink-network-stack.html> > [2] > https://flink.apache.org/2019/06/05/flink-network-stack.html#what-do-we-gain-where-is-the-catch > < > https://flink.apache.org/2019/06/05/flink-network-stack.html#what-do-we-gain-where-is-the-catch > > > [3] > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/a2b58b7b2b24b9bd4814b2aa51d2fc44b08a919eddbb5b1256be5b6a@%3Cdev.flink.apache.org%3E > < > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/a2b58b7b2b24b9bd4814b2aa51d2fc44b08a919eddbb5b1256be5b6a@%3Cdev.flink.apache.org%3E > > > > |
+1 to drop the non credit-based flow control.
We have turned to credit-based flow control for long in production. It has been good for all our cases. The non credit-based flow control code has been a burden when we are trying to change the network stack code for new features. Thanks, Zhu Zhu Biao Liu <[hidden email]> 于2019年10月10日周四 下午5:45写道: > Thanks for start this survey, Piotr. > > We have benefitted from credit-based flow control a lot. I can't figure out > a reason to use non credit-based model. > I think we have kept the older code paths long enough (1.5 -> 1.9). That's > a big burden to maintain. Especially there are a lot duplicated codes > between credit-based and non credit-based model. > > So +1 to do the cleanup. > > Thanks, > Biao /'bɪ.aʊ/ > > > > On Thu, 10 Oct 2019 at 11:15, zhijiang <[hidden email] > .invalid> > wrote: > > > Thanks for bringing this survey Piotr. > > > > Actually I was also trying to dropping the non credit-based code path > from > > release-1.9, and now I think it is the proper time to do it motivated by > > [3]. > > The credit-based mode is as default from Flink 1.5 and it has been > > verified to be stable and reliable in many versions. In Alibaba we are > > always using the default credit-based mode in all products. > > It can reduce much overhead of maintaining non credit-based code path, so > > +1 from my side to drop it. > > > > Best, > > Zhijiang > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > From:Piotr Nowojski <[hidden email]> > > Send Time:2019年10月2日(星期三) 17:01 > > To:dev <[hidden email]> > > Subject:[SURVEY] Dropping non Credit-based Flow Control > > > > Hi, > > > > In Flink 1.5 we have introduced Credit-based Flow Control [1] in the > > network stack. Back then we were aware about potential downsides of it > [2] > > and we decided to keep the old model in the code base ( configurable by > > setting `taskmanager.network.credit-model: false` ). Now, that we are > > about to modify internals of the network stack again [3], it might be a > > good time to clean up the code and remove the older code paths. > > > > Is anyone still using the non default non Credit-based model ( > > `taskmanager.network.credit-model: false`)? If so, why? > > > > Piotrek > > > > [1] https://flink.apache.org/2019/06/05/flink-network-stack.html < > > https://flink.apache.org/2019/06/05/flink-network-stack.html> > > [2] > > > https://flink.apache.org/2019/06/05/flink-network-stack.html#what-do-we-gain-where-is-the-catch > > < > > > https://flink.apache.org/2019/06/05/flink-network-stack.html#what-do-we-gain-where-is-the-catch > > > > > [3] > > > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/a2b58b7b2b24b9bd4814b2aa51d2fc44b08a919eddbb5b1256be5b6a@%3Cdev.flink.apache.org%3E > > < > > > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/a2b58b7b2b24b9bd4814b2aa51d2fc44b08a919eddbb5b1256be5b6a@%3Cdev.flink.apache.org%3E > > > > > > > > |
+1
Credit-based flow control has long been used in our production environment as well. It works fine and there seems no reason to use non credit-based implementation. Regards, Xiaogang Zhu Zhu <[hidden email]> 于2019年10月19日周六 下午3:01写道: > +1 to drop the non credit-based flow control. > We have turned to credit-based flow control for long in production. It has > been good for all our cases. > The non credit-based flow control code has been a burden when we are trying > to change the network stack code for new features. > > Thanks, > Zhu Zhu > > > Biao Liu <[hidden email]> 于2019年10月10日周四 下午5:45写道: > > > Thanks for start this survey, Piotr. > > > > We have benefitted from credit-based flow control a lot. I can't figure > out > > a reason to use non credit-based model. > > I think we have kept the older code paths long enough (1.5 -> 1.9). > That's > > a big burden to maintain. Especially there are a lot duplicated codes > > between credit-based and non credit-based model. > > > > So +1 to do the cleanup. > > > > Thanks, > > Biao /'bɪ.aʊ/ > > > > > > > > On Thu, 10 Oct 2019 at 11:15, zhijiang <[hidden email] > > .invalid> > > wrote: > > > > > Thanks for bringing this survey Piotr. > > > > > > Actually I was also trying to dropping the non credit-based code path > > from > > > release-1.9, and now I think it is the proper time to do it motivated > by > > > [3]. > > > The credit-based mode is as default from Flink 1.5 and it has been > > > verified to be stable and reliable in many versions. In Alibaba we are > > > always using the default credit-based mode in all products. > > > It can reduce much overhead of maintaining non credit-based code path, > so > > > +1 from my side to drop it. > > > > > > Best, > > > Zhijiang > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > From:Piotr Nowojski <[hidden email]> > > > Send Time:2019年10月2日(星期三) 17:01 > > > To:dev <[hidden email]> > > > Subject:[SURVEY] Dropping non Credit-based Flow Control > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > In Flink 1.5 we have introduced Credit-based Flow Control [1] in the > > > network stack. Back then we were aware about potential downsides of it > > [2] > > > and we decided to keep the old model in the code base ( configurable by > > > setting `taskmanager.network.credit-model: false` ). Now, that we are > > > about to modify internals of the network stack again [3], it might be a > > > good time to clean up the code and remove the older code paths. > > > > > > Is anyone still using the non default non Credit-based model ( > > > `taskmanager.network.credit-model: false`)? If so, why? > > > > > > Piotrek > > > > > > [1] https://flink.apache.org/2019/06/05/flink-network-stack.html < > > > https://flink.apache.org/2019/06/05/flink-network-stack.html> > > > [2] > > > > > > https://flink.apache.org/2019/06/05/flink-network-stack.html#what-do-we-gain-where-is-the-catch > > > < > > > > > > https://flink.apache.org/2019/06/05/flink-network-stack.html#what-do-we-gain-where-is-the-catch > > > > > > > [3] > > > > > > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/a2b58b7b2b24b9bd4814b2aa51d2fc44b08a919eddbb5b1256be5b6a@%3Cdev.flink.apache.org%3E > > > < > > > > > > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/a2b58b7b2b24b9bd4814b2aa51d2fc44b08a919eddbb5b1256be5b6a@%3Cdev.flink.apache.org%3E > > > > > > > > > > > > > |
+1
I have not heard of a real-world use-case that suffered more than it gained and also think it is time to remove the old paths. There are, however, still improvements to be made in credit-based flow control (like [1]) but that should not stop us from removing the old paths if no-one is really using them anyway Nico [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FLINK-10742 On 21/10/2019 03:14, SHI Xiaogang wrote: > +1 > > Credit-based flow control has long been used in our production environment > as well. It works fine and there seems no reason to use non credit-based > implementation. > > Regards, > Xiaogang > > Zhu Zhu <[hidden email]> 于2019年10月19日周六 下午3:01写道: > >> +1 to drop the non credit-based flow control. >> We have turned to credit-based flow control for long in production. It has >> been good for all our cases. >> The non credit-based flow control code has been a burden when we are trying >> to change the network stack code for new features. >> >> Thanks, >> Zhu Zhu >> >> >> Biao Liu <[hidden email]> 于2019年10月10日周四 下午5:45写道: >> >>> Thanks for start this survey, Piotr. >>> >>> We have benefitted from credit-based flow control a lot. I can't figure >> out >>> a reason to use non credit-based model. >>> I think we have kept the older code paths long enough (1.5 -> 1.9). >> That's >>> a big burden to maintain. Especially there are a lot duplicated codes >>> between credit-based and non credit-based model. >>> >>> So +1 to do the cleanup. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Biao /'bɪ.aʊ/ >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, 10 Oct 2019 at 11:15, zhijiang <[hidden email] >>> .invalid> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks for bringing this survey Piotr. >>>> >>>> Actually I was also trying to dropping the non credit-based code path >>> from >>>> release-1.9, and now I think it is the proper time to do it motivated >> by >>>> [3]. >>>> The credit-based mode is as default from Flink 1.5 and it has been >>>> verified to be stable and reliable in many versions. In Alibaba we are >>>> always using the default credit-based mode in all products. >>>> It can reduce much overhead of maintaining non credit-based code path, >> so >>>> +1 from my side to drop it. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Zhijiang >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> From:Piotr Nowojski <[hidden email]> >>>> Send Time:2019年10月2日(星期三) 17:01 >>>> To:dev <[hidden email]> >>>> Subject:[SURVEY] Dropping non Credit-based Flow Control >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> In Flink 1.5 we have introduced Credit-based Flow Control [1] in the >>>> network stack. Back then we were aware about potential downsides of it >>> [2] >>>> and we decided to keep the old model in the code base ( configurable by >>>> setting `taskmanager.network.credit-model: false` ). Now, that we are >>>> about to modify internals of the network stack again [3], it might be a >>>> good time to clean up the code and remove the older code paths. >>>> >>>> Is anyone still using the non default non Credit-based model ( >>>> `taskmanager.network.credit-model: false`)? If so, why? >>>> >>>> Piotrek >>>> >>>> [1] https://flink.apache.org/2019/06/05/flink-network-stack.html < >>>> https://flink.apache.org/2019/06/05/flink-network-stack.html> >>>> [2] >>>> >>> >> https://flink.apache.org/2019/06/05/flink-network-stack.html#what-do-we-gain-where-is-the-catch >>>> < >>>> >>> >> https://flink.apache.org/2019/06/05/flink-network-stack.html#what-do-we-gain-where-is-the-catch >>>>> >>>> [3] >>>> >>> >> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/a2b58b7b2b24b9bd4814b2aa51d2fc44b08a919eddbb5b1256be5b6a@%3Cdev.flink.apache.org%3E >>>> < >>>> >>> >> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/a2b58b7b2b24b9bd4814b2aa51d2fc44b08a919eddbb5b1256be5b6a@%3Cdev.flink.apache.org%3E >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> > Nico Kruber | Solutions Architect Follow us @VervericaData Ververica -- Join Flink Forward - The Apache Flink Conference Stream Processing | Event Driven | Real Time -- Ververica GmbH | Invalidenstrasse 115, 10115 Berlin, Germany -- Ververica GmbH Registered at Amtsgericht Charlottenburg: HRB 158244 B Managing Directors: Timothy Alexander Steinert, Yip Park Tung Jason, Ji (Tony) Cheng signature.asc (201 bytes) Download Attachment |
Hi,
Thank you all for the feedback. I’ve created a ticket [1] to remove the non Credit-based Flow Control code paths. Piotrek [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FLINK-14516 <https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FLINK-14516> > On 23 Oct 2019, at 10:59, Nico Kruber <[hidden email]> wrote: > > +1 > > I have not heard of a real-world use-case that suffered more than it > gained and also think it is time to remove the old paths. > > There are, however, still improvements to be made in credit-based flow > control (like [1]) but that should not stop us from removing the old > paths if no-one is really using them anyway > > > Nico > > [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FLINK-10742 > > On 21/10/2019 03:14, SHI Xiaogang wrote: >> +1 >> >> Credit-based flow control has long been used in our production environment >> as well. It works fine and there seems no reason to use non credit-based >> implementation. >> >> Regards, >> Xiaogang >> >> Zhu Zhu <[hidden email]> 于2019年10月19日周六 下午3:01写道: >> >>> +1 to drop the non credit-based flow control. >>> We have turned to credit-based flow control for long in production. It has >>> been good for all our cases. >>> The non credit-based flow control code has been a burden when we are trying >>> to change the network stack code for new features. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Zhu Zhu >>> >>> >>> Biao Liu <[hidden email]> 于2019年10月10日周四 下午5:45写道: >>> >>>> Thanks for start this survey, Piotr. >>>> >>>> We have benefitted from credit-based flow control a lot. I can't figure >>> out >>>> a reason to use non credit-based model. >>>> I think we have kept the older code paths long enough (1.5 -> 1.9). >>> That's >>>> a big burden to maintain. Especially there are a lot duplicated codes >>>> between credit-based and non credit-based model. >>>> >>>> So +1 to do the cleanup. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Biao /'bɪ.aʊ/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, 10 Oct 2019 at 11:15, zhijiang <[hidden email] >>>> .invalid> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Thanks for bringing this survey Piotr. >>>>> >>>>> Actually I was also trying to dropping the non credit-based code path >>>> from >>>>> release-1.9, and now I think it is the proper time to do it motivated >>> by >>>>> [3]. >>>>> The credit-based mode is as default from Flink 1.5 and it has been >>>>> verified to be stable and reliable in many versions. In Alibaba we are >>>>> always using the default credit-based mode in all products. >>>>> It can reduce much overhead of maintaining non credit-based code path, >>> so >>>>> +1 from my side to drop it. >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> Zhijiang >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> From:Piotr Nowojski <[hidden email]> >>>>> Send Time:2019年10月2日(星期三) 17:01 >>>>> To:dev <[hidden email]> >>>>> Subject:[SURVEY] Dropping non Credit-based Flow Control >>>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> In Flink 1.5 we have introduced Credit-based Flow Control [1] in the >>>>> network stack. Back then we were aware about potential downsides of it >>>> [2] >>>>> and we decided to keep the old model in the code base ( configurable by >>>>> setting `taskmanager.network.credit-model: false` ). Now, that we are >>>>> about to modify internals of the network stack again [3], it might be a >>>>> good time to clean up the code and remove the older code paths. >>>>> >>>>> Is anyone still using the non default non Credit-based model ( >>>>> `taskmanager.network.credit-model: false`)? If so, why? >>>>> >>>>> Piotrek >>>>> >>>>> [1] https://flink.apache.org/2019/06/05/flink-network-stack.html < >>>>> https://flink.apache.org/2019/06/05/flink-network-stack.html> >>>>> [2] >>>>> >>>> >>> https://flink.apache.org/2019/06/05/flink-network-stack.html#what-do-we-gain-where-is-the-catch >>>>> < >>>>> >>>> >>> https://flink.apache.org/2019/06/05/flink-network-stack.html#what-do-we-gain-where-is-the-catch >>>>>> >>>>> [3] >>>>> >>>> >>> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/a2b58b7b2b24b9bd4814b2aa51d2fc44b08a919eddbb5b1256be5b6a@%3Cdev.flink.apache.org%3E >>>>> < >>>>> >>>> >>> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/a2b58b7b2b24b9bd4814b2aa51d2fc44b08a919eddbb5b1256be5b6a@%3Cdev.flink.apache.org%3E >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> > > -- > Nico Kruber | Solutions Architect > > Follow us @VervericaData Ververica > -- > Join Flink Forward - The Apache Flink Conference > Stream Processing | Event Driven | Real Time > -- > Ververica GmbH | Invalidenstrasse 115, 10115 Berlin, Germany > -- > Ververica GmbH > Registered at Amtsgericht Charlottenburg: HRB 158244 B > Managing Directors: Timothy Alexander Steinert, Yip Park Tung Jason, Ji > (Tony) Cheng > |
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