Redesigned "Features" page

[Stephan Ewen]

Hi all!

I think that the "Features" page of the website is a bit out of date.

I made an effort to stub a new one. It is committed under "features_new.md"
and not yet built as an HTML page.

If you want to take a look and help building this, pull the flink-web git
repository and build the website locally. You can then look at it under "
http://localhost:4000/index_new.html"


So far, I am happy with the new contents. Three things remain to be done:

1) The page misses a figure on Streaming throughput and latency. Currently,
I am using a figure from some preliminary measurements made by Marton.
IIRC, Robert is running some performance tests right now and we can use his
results to create a new figure.

2) The figures could use some love. The concept is good, but the style is a
bit sterile. I was hoping that Fabian would help out with his amazing style
of drawing figures ;-)

3) More people should have a look and say if we should replace the current
"Features" page with this new one


Greetings,
Stephan

[Fabian Hueske-2]

I'll be happy to help, eh draw ;-)

2015-07-06 15:22 GMT+02:00 Stephan Ewen <[hidden email]>:

> Hi all!
>
> I think that the "Features" page of the website is a bit out of date.
>
> I made an effort to stub a new one. It is committed under "features_new.md
> "
> and not yet built as an HTML page.
>
> If you want to take a look and help building this, pull the flink-web git
> repository and build the website locally. You can then look at it under "
> http://localhost:4000/index_new.html"
>
>
> So far, I am happy with the new contents. Three things remain to be done:
>
> 1) The page misses a figure on Streaming throughput and latency. Currently,
> I am using a figure from some preliminary measurements made by Marton.
> IIRC, Robert is running some performance tests right now and we can use his
> results to create a new figure.
>
> 2) The figures could use some love. The concept is good, but the style is a
> bit sterile. I was hoping that Fabian would help out with his amazing style
> of drawing figures ;-)
>
> 3) More people should have a look and say if we should replace the current
> "Features" page with this new one
>
>
> Greetings,
> Stephan
>

[mxm]

Hi Stephan,

Thanks for the feature page update. I think it is much more informative and
better structured now.

By the way, you could also open a pull request for your changes on
https://github.com/apache/flink-web/pulls

Cheers,
Max


On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 3:28 PM, Fabian Hueske <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I'll be happy to help, eh draw ;-)
>
> 2015-07-06 15:22 GMT+02:00 Stephan Ewen <[hidden email]>:
>
> > Hi all!
> >
> > I think that the "Features" page of the website is a bit out of date.
> >
> > I made an effort to stub a new one. It is committed under "
> features_new.md
> > "
> > and not yet built as an HTML page.
> >
> > If you want to take a look and help building this, pull the flink-web git
> > repository and build the website locally. You can then look at it under "
> > http://localhost:4000/index_new.html"
> >
> >
> > So far, I am happy with the new contents. Three things remain to be done:
> >
> > 1) The page misses a figure on Streaming throughput and latency.
> Currently,
> > I am using a figure from some preliminary measurements made by Marton.
> > IIRC, Robert is running some performance tests right now and we can use
> his
> > results to create a new figure.
> >
> > 2) The figures could use some love. The concept is good, but the style
> is a
> > bit sterile. I was hoping that Fabian would help out with his amazing
> style
> > of drawing figures ;-)
> >
> > 3) More people should have a look and say if we should replace the
> current
> > "Features" page with this new one
> >
> >
> > Greetings,
> > Stephan
> >
>

[Stephan Ewen]

Thanks Max!

Did not even know we had a github mirror of the flink-web repo...

On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 6:05 PM, Maximilian Michels <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Stephan,
>
> Thanks for the feature page update. I think it is much more informative and
> better structured now.
>
> By the way, you could also open a pull request for your changes on
> https://github.com/apache/flink-web/pulls
>
> Cheers,
> Max
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 3:28 PM, Fabian Hueske <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > I'll be happy to help, eh draw ;-)
> >
> > 2015-07-06 15:22 GMT+02:00 Stephan Ewen <[hidden email]>:
> >
> > > Hi all!
> > >
> > > I think that the "Features" page of the website is a bit out of date.
> > >
> > > I made an effort to stub a new one. It is committed under "
> > features_new.md
> > > "
> > > and not yet built as an HTML page.
> > >
> > > If you want to take a look and help building this, pull the flink-web
> git
> > > repository and build the website locally. You can then look at it
> under "
> > > http://localhost:4000/index_new.html"
> > >
> > >
> > > So far, I am happy with the new contents. Three things remain to be
> done:
> > >
> > > 1) The page misses a figure on Streaming throughput and latency.
> > Currently,
> > > I am using a figure from some preliminary measurements made by Marton.
> > > IIRC, Robert is running some performance tests right now and we can use
> > his
> > > results to create a new figure.
> > >
> > > 2) The figures could use some love. The concept is good, but the style
> > is a
> > > bit sterile. I was hoping that Fabian would help out with his amazing
> > style
> > > of drawing figures ;-)
> > >
> > > 3) More people should have a look and say if we should replace the
> > current
> > > "Features" page with this new one
> > >
> > >
> > > Greetings,
> > > Stephan
> > >
> >
>

[Till Rohrmann]

I also like the new feature page. I better conveys the strong points of
Flink, since it's more to the point.

On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 6:09 PM, Stephan Ewen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Thanks Max!
>
> Did not even know we had a github mirror of the flink-web repo...
>
> On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 6:05 PM, Maximilian Michels <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Hi Stephan,
> >
> > Thanks for the feature page update. I think it is much more informative
> and
> > better structured now.
> >
> > By the way, you could also open a pull request for your changes on
> > https://github.com/apache/flink-web/pulls
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Max
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 3:28 PM, Fabian Hueske <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > I'll be happy to help, eh draw ;-)
> > >
> > > 2015-07-06 15:22 GMT+02:00 Stephan Ewen <[hidden email]>:
> > >
> > > > Hi all!
> > > >
> > > > I think that the "Features" page of the website is a bit out of date.
> > > >
> > > > I made an effort to stub a new one. It is committed under "
> > > features_new.md
> > > > "
> > > > and not yet built as an HTML page.
> > > >
> > > > If you want to take a look and help building this, pull the flink-web
> > git
> > > > repository and build the website locally. You can then look at it
> > under "
> > > > http://localhost:4000/index_new.html"
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > So far, I am happy with the new contents. Three things remain to be
> > done:
> > > >
> > > > 1) The page misses a figure on Streaming throughput and latency.
> > > Currently,
> > > > I am using a figure from some preliminary measurements made by
> Marton.
> > > > IIRC, Robert is running some performance tests right now and we can
> use
> > > his
> > > > results to create a new figure.
> > > >
> > > > 2) The figures could use some love. The concept is good, but the
> style
> > > is a
> > > > bit sterile. I was hoping that Fabian would help out with his amazing
> > > style
> > > > of drawing figures ;-)
> > > >
> > > > 3) More people should have a look and say if we should replace the
> > > current
> > > > "Features" page with this new one
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Greetings,
> > > > Stephan
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

[Fabian Hueske-2]

+1 for the clear and brief feature descriptions!

I am not so sure about the structure of the points, especially separating
"Streaming" and "Batch and Streaming in One System" does not support the
message of a unified system, IMO.

How about categorizing the points into three sections (Internals, API,
Integration) and structuring the points for example as follows:

-- High Performance, Robust Execution, and Fault-tolerance
High performance
Continuous Streaming Model with Flow Control
Fault-tolerance via Lightweight Distributed Snapshots
Memory Management
Iterations and Delta Iterations

-- Ease of use, APIs, and Clear Semantics
One runtime for Streaming and Batch Processing
Expressive APIs (Batch + Streaming)
Exactly-once Semantics for Stateful Computations
Program Optimizer
Library Ecosystem

-- Integration
Broad Integration

Cheers, Fabian

2015-07-07 10:39 GMT+02:00 Till Rohrmann <[hidden email]>:

> I also like the new feature page. I better conveys the strong points of
> Flink, since it's more to the point.
>
> On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 6:09 PM, Stephan Ewen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Thanks Max!
> >
> > Did not even know we had a github mirror of the flink-web repo...
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 6:05 PM, Maximilian Michels <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Stephan,
> > >
> > > Thanks for the feature page update. I think it is much more informative
> > and
> > > better structured now.
> > >
> > > By the way, you could also open a pull request for your changes on
> > > https://github.com/apache/flink-web/pulls
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Max
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 3:28 PM, Fabian Hueske <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I'll be happy to help, eh draw ;-)
> > > >
> > > > 2015-07-06 15:22 GMT+02:00 Stephan Ewen <[hidden email]>:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi all!
> > > > >
> > > > > I think that the "Features" page of the website is a bit out of
> date.
> > > > >
> > > > > I made an effort to stub a new one. It is committed under "
> > > > features_new.md
> > > > > "
> > > > > and not yet built as an HTML page.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you want to take a look and help building this, pull the
> flink-web
> > > git
> > > > > repository and build the website locally. You can then look at it
> > > under "
> > > > > http://localhost:4000/index_new.html"
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > So far, I am happy with the new contents. Three things remain to be
> > > done:
> > > > >
> > > > > 1) The page misses a figure on Streaming throughput and latency.
> > > > Currently,
> > > > > I am using a figure from some preliminary measurements made by
> > Marton.
> > > > > IIRC, Robert is running some performance tests right now and we can
> > use
> > > > his
> > > > > results to create a new figure.
> > > > >
> > > > > 2) The figures could use some love. The concept is good, but the
> > style
> > > > is a
> > > > > bit sterile. I was hoping that Fabian would help out with his
> amazing
> > > > style
> > > > > of drawing figures ;-)
> > > > >
> > > > > 3) More people should have a look and say if we should replace the
> > > > current
> > > > > "Features" page with this new one
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Greetings,
> > > > > Stephan
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

[Stephan Ewen]

I actually put quite some thought into the structure of the points. They
reflect pretty much what I observed (meetups and talks) where people get
excited and what they are missing.

The structure follows the line of through of "stream processor that also
does batch very well". And then separate the features as they contribute to
that.

Intermixing features across their relation to streaming and batch has not
worked out for my presentations at all. It came across that Flink is a
system with a multitude of aspects, but no one in the audience could really
say what Flink is good at in the end, where it stands out.

The proposed structure makes this very clear:

  - Flink is a kick-ass stream processor     (Strongest differentiation
from all other technology)
  - Flink can also do batch very well          (It is broadly applicable
and strong)
  - It surfaces nice APIs and rich libraries  (Low entry hurdle)
  - It plays well with existing technology


Stephan


On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 12:22 PM, Fabian Hueske <[hidden email]> wrote:

> +1 for the clear and brief feature descriptions!
>
> I am not so sure about the structure of the points, especially separating
> "Streaming" and "Batch and Streaming in One System" does not support the
> message of a unified system, IMO.
>
> How about categorizing the points into three sections (Internals, API,
> Integration) and structuring the points for example as follows:
>
> -- High Performance, Robust Execution, and Fault-tolerance
> High performance
> Continuous Streaming Model with Flow Control
> Fault-tolerance via Lightweight Distributed Snapshots
> Memory Management
> Iterations and Delta Iterations
>
> -- Ease of use, APIs, and Clear Semantics
> One runtime for Streaming and Batch Processing
> Expressive APIs (Batch + Streaming)
> Exactly-once Semantics for Stateful Computations
> Program Optimizer
> Library Ecosystem
>
> -- Integration
> Broad Integration
>
> Cheers, Fabian
>
> 2015-07-07 10:39 GMT+02:00 Till Rohrmann <[hidden email]>:
>
> > I also like the new feature page. I better conveys the strong points of
> > Flink, since it's more to the point.
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 6:09 PM, Stephan Ewen <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > Thanks Max!
> > >
> > > Did not even know we had a github mirror of the flink-web repo...
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 6:05 PM, Maximilian Michels <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Stephan,
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for the feature page update. I think it is much more
> informative
> > > and
> > > > better structured now.
> > > >
> > > > By the way, you could also open a pull request for your changes on
> > > > https://github.com/apache/flink-web/pulls
> > > >
> > > > Cheers,
> > > > Max
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 3:28 PM, Fabian Hueske <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I'll be happy to help, eh draw ;-)
> > > > >
> > > > > 2015-07-06 15:22 GMT+02:00 Stephan Ewen <[hidden email]>:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi all!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I think that the "Features" page of the website is a bit out of
> > date.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I made an effort to stub a new one. It is committed under "
> > > > > features_new.md
> > > > > > "
> > > > > > and not yet built as an HTML page.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you want to take a look and help building this, pull the
> > flink-web
> > > > git
> > > > > > repository and build the website locally. You can then look at it
> > > > under "
> > > > > > http://localhost:4000/index_new.html"
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So far, I am happy with the new contents. Three things remain to
> be
> > > > done:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1) The page misses a figure on Streaming throughput and latency.
> > > > > Currently,
> > > > > > I am using a figure from some preliminary measurements made by
> > > Marton.
> > > > > > IIRC, Robert is running some performance tests right now and we
> can
> > > use
> > > > > his
> > > > > > results to create a new figure.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2) The figures could use some love. The concept is good, but the
> > > style
> > > > > is a
> > > > > > bit sterile. I was hoping that Fabian would help out with his
> > amazing
> > > > > style
> > > > > > of drawing figures ;-)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 3) More people should have a look and say if we should replace
> the
> > > > > current
> > > > > > "Features" page with this new one
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Greetings,
> > > > > > Stephan
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

[Gyula Fóra]

I think the content is pretty good, much better than before. But the page
structure could be better (and this is very important in my opinion).
Now it just looks like a long list of features without any ways to navigate
between them. We should probably have something at the top that summarizes
the page.

And maybe at the specific points we should add links to other pages (for
instance internals pages).

Stephan Ewen <[hidden email]> ezt írta (időpont: 2015. júl. 7., K, 13:22):

> I actually put quite some thought into the structure of the points. They
> reflect pretty much what I observed (meetups and talks) where people get
> excited and what they are missing.
>
> The structure follows the line of through of "stream processor that also
> does batch very well". And then separate the features as they contribute to
> that.
>
> Intermixing features across their relation to streaming and batch has not
> worked out for my presentations at all. It came across that Flink is a
> system with a multitude of aspects, but no one in the audience could really
> say what Flink is good at in the end, where it stands out.
>
> The proposed structure makes this very clear:
>
>   - Flink is a kick-ass stream processor     (Strongest differentiation
> from all other technology)
>   - Flink can also do batch very well          (It is broadly applicable
> and strong)
>   - It surfaces nice APIs and rich libraries  (Low entry hurdle)
>   - It plays well with existing technology
>
>
> Stephan
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 12:22 PM, Fabian Hueske <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > +1 for the clear and brief feature descriptions!
> >
> > I am not so sure about the structure of the points, especially separating
> > "Streaming" and "Batch and Streaming in One System" does not support the
> > message of a unified system, IMO.
> >
> > How about categorizing the points into three sections (Internals, API,
> > Integration) and structuring the points for example as follows:
> >
> > -- High Performance, Robust Execution, and Fault-tolerance
> > High performance
> > Continuous Streaming Model with Flow Control
> > Fault-tolerance via Lightweight Distributed Snapshots
> > Memory Management
> > Iterations and Delta Iterations
> >
> > -- Ease of use, APIs, and Clear Semantics
> > One runtime for Streaming and Batch Processing
> > Expressive APIs (Batch + Streaming)
> > Exactly-once Semantics for Stateful Computations
> > Program Optimizer
> > Library Ecosystem
> >
> > -- Integration
> > Broad Integration
> >
> > Cheers, Fabian
> >
> > 2015-07-07 10:39 GMT+02:00 Till Rohrmann <[hidden email]>:
> >
> > > I also like the new feature page. I better conveys the strong points of
> > > Flink, since it's more to the point.
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 6:09 PM, Stephan Ewen <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Thanks Max!
> > > >
> > > > Did not even know we had a github mirror of the flink-web repo...
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 6:05 PM, Maximilian Michels <[hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Stephan,
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for the feature page update. I think it is much more
> > informative
> > > > and
> > > > > better structured now.
> > > > >
> > > > > By the way, you could also open a pull request for your changes on
> > > > > https://github.com/apache/flink-web/pulls
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > Max
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 3:28 PM, Fabian Hueske <[hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I'll be happy to help, eh draw ;-)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2015-07-06 15:22 GMT+02:00 Stephan Ewen <[hidden email]>:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi all!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I think that the "Features" page of the website is a bit out of
> > > date.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I made an effort to stub a new one. It is committed under "
> > > > > > features_new.md
> > > > > > > "
> > > > > > > and not yet built as an HTML page.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If you want to take a look and help building this, pull the
> > > flink-web
> > > > > git
> > > > > > > repository and build the website locally. You can then look at
> it
> > > > > under "
> > > > > > > http://localhost:4000/index_new.html"
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So far, I am happy with the new contents. Three things remain
> to
> > be
> > > > > done:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 1) The page misses a figure on Streaming throughput and
> latency.
> > > > > > Currently,
> > > > > > > I am using a figure from some preliminary measurements made by
> > > > Marton.
> > > > > > > IIRC, Robert is running some performance tests right now and we
> > can
> > > > use
> > > > > > his
> > > > > > > results to create a new figure.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 2) The figures could use some love. The concept is good, but
> the
> > > > style
> > > > > > is a
> > > > > > > bit sterile. I was hoping that Fabian would help out with his
> > > amazing
> > > > > > style
> > > > > > > of drawing figures ;-)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 3) More people should have a look and say if we should replace
> > the
> > > > > > current
> > > > > > > "Features" page with this new one
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Greetings,
> > > > > > > Stephan
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

[Stephan Ewen]

+1 to adding links

In fact, all points should link to some documentation part.



On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 1:33 PM, Gyula Fóra <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I think the content is pretty good, much better than before. But the page
> structure could be better (and this is very important in my opinion).
> Now it just looks like a long list of features without any ways to navigate
> between them. We should probably have something at the top that summarizes
> the page.
>
> And maybe at the specific points we should add links to other pages (for
> instance internals pages).
>
> Stephan Ewen <[hidden email]> ezt írta (időpont: 2015. júl. 7., K,
> 13:22):
>
> > I actually put quite some thought into the structure of the points. They
> > reflect pretty much what I observed (meetups and talks) where people get
> > excited and what they are missing.
> >
> > The structure follows the line of through of "stream processor that also
> > does batch very well". And then separate the features as they contribute
> to
> > that.
> >
> > Intermixing features across their relation to streaming and batch has not
> > worked out for my presentations at all. It came across that Flink is a
> > system with a multitude of aspects, but no one in the audience could
> really
> > say what Flink is good at in the end, where it stands out.
> >
> > The proposed structure makes this very clear:
> >
> >   - Flink is a kick-ass stream processor     (Strongest differentiation
> > from all other technology)
> >   - Flink can also do batch very well          (It is broadly applicable
> > and strong)
> >   - It surfaces nice APIs and rich libraries  (Low entry hurdle)
> >   - It plays well with existing technology
> >
> >
> > Stephan
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 12:22 PM, Fabian Hueske <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> > > +1 for the clear and brief feature descriptions!
> > >
> > > I am not so sure about the structure of the points, especially
> separating
> > > "Streaming" and "Batch and Streaming in One System" does not support
> the
> > > message of a unified system, IMO.
> > >
> > > How about categorizing the points into three sections (Internals, API,
> > > Integration) and structuring the points for example as follows:
> > >
> > > -- High Performance, Robust Execution, and Fault-tolerance
> > > High performance
> > > Continuous Streaming Model with Flow Control
> > > Fault-tolerance via Lightweight Distributed Snapshots
> > > Memory Management
> > > Iterations and Delta Iterations
> > >
> > > -- Ease of use, APIs, and Clear Semantics
> > > One runtime for Streaming and Batch Processing
> > > Expressive APIs (Batch + Streaming)
> > > Exactly-once Semantics for Stateful Computations
> > > Program Optimizer
> > > Library Ecosystem
> > >
> > > -- Integration
> > > Broad Integration
> > >
> > > Cheers, Fabian
> > >
> > > 2015-07-07 10:39 GMT+02:00 Till Rohrmann <[hidden email]>:
> > >
> > > > I also like the new feature page. I better conveys the strong points
> of
> > > > Flink, since it's more to the point.
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 6:09 PM, Stephan Ewen <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Thanks Max!
> > > > >
> > > > > Did not even know we had a github mirror of the flink-web repo...
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 6:05 PM, Maximilian Michels <[hidden email]
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Stephan,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks for the feature page update. I think it is much more
> > > informative
> > > > > and
> > > > > > better structured now.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > By the way, you could also open a pull request for your changes
> on
> > > > > > https://github.com/apache/flink-web/pulls
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > > Max
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 3:28 PM, Fabian Hueske <[hidden email]
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'll be happy to help, eh draw ;-)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 2015-07-06 15:22 GMT+02:00 Stephan Ewen <[hidden email]>:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi all!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I think that the "Features" page of the website is a bit out
> of
> > > > date.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I made an effort to stub a new one. It is committed under "
> > > > > > > features_new.md
> > > > > > > > "
> > > > > > > > and not yet built as an HTML page.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If you want to take a look and help building this, pull the
> > > > flink-web
> > > > > > git
> > > > > > > > repository and build the website locally. You can then look
> at
> > it
> > > > > > under "
> > > > > > > > http://localhost:4000/index_new.html"
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So far, I am happy with the new contents. Three things remain
> > to
> > > be
> > > > > > done:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 1) The page misses a figure on Streaming throughput and
> > latency.
> > > > > > > Currently,
> > > > > > > > I am using a figure from some preliminary measurements made
> by
> > > > > Marton.
> > > > > > > > IIRC, Robert is running some performance tests right now and
> we
> > > can
> > > > > use
> > > > > > > his
> > > > > > > > results to create a new figure.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 2) The figures could use some love. The concept is good, but
> > the
> > > > > style
> > > > > > > is a
> > > > > > > > bit sterile. I was hoping that Fabian would help out with his
> > > > amazing
> > > > > > > style
> > > > > > > > of drawing figures ;-)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 3) More people should have a look and say if we should
> replace
> > > the
> > > > > > > current
> > > > > > > > "Features" page with this new one
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Greetings,
> > > > > > > > Stephan
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

[Stephan Ewen]

So, what do we do with this now?

On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 1:41 PM, Stephan Ewen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> +1 to adding links
>
> In fact, all points should link to some documentation part.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 1:33 PM, Gyula Fóra <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I think the content is pretty good, much better than before. But the page
>> structure could be better (and this is very important in my opinion).
>> Now it just looks like a long list of features without any ways to
>> navigate
>> between them. We should probably have something at the top that summarizes
>> the page.
>>
>> And maybe at the specific points we should add links to other pages (for
>> instance internals pages).
>>
>> Stephan Ewen <[hidden email]> ezt írta (időpont: 2015. júl. 7., K,
>> 13:22):
>>
>> > I actually put quite some thought into the structure of the points. They
>> > reflect pretty much what I observed (meetups and talks) where people get
>> > excited and what they are missing.
>> >
>> > The structure follows the line of through of "stream processor that also
>> > does batch very well". And then separate the features as they
>> contribute to
>> > that.
>> >
>> > Intermixing features across their relation to streaming and batch has
>> not
>> > worked out for my presentations at all. It came across that Flink is a
>> > system with a multitude of aspects, but no one in the audience could
>> really
>> > say what Flink is good at in the end, where it stands out.
>> >
>> > The proposed structure makes this very clear:
>> >
>> >   - Flink is a kick-ass stream processor     (Strongest differentiation
>> > from all other technology)
>> >   - Flink can also do batch very well          (It is broadly applicable
>> > and strong)
>> >   - It surfaces nice APIs and rich libraries  (Low entry hurdle)
>> >   - It plays well with existing technology
>> >
>> >
>> > Stephan
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 12:22 PM, Fabian Hueske <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > > +1 for the clear and brief feature descriptions!
>> > >
>> > > I am not so sure about the structure of the points, especially
>> separating
>> > > "Streaming" and "Batch and Streaming in One System" does not support
>> the
>> > > message of a unified system, IMO.
>> > >
>> > > How about categorizing the points into three sections (Internals, API,
>> > > Integration) and structuring the points for example as follows:
>> > >
>> > > -- High Performance, Robust Execution, and Fault-tolerance
>> > > High performance
>> > > Continuous Streaming Model with Flow Control
>> > > Fault-tolerance via Lightweight Distributed Snapshots
>> > > Memory Management
>> > > Iterations and Delta Iterations
>> > >
>> > > -- Ease of use, APIs, and Clear Semantics
>> > > One runtime for Streaming and Batch Processing
>> > > Expressive APIs (Batch + Streaming)
>> > > Exactly-once Semantics for Stateful Computations
>> > > Program Optimizer
>> > > Library Ecosystem
>> > >
>> > > -- Integration
>> > > Broad Integration
>> > >
>> > > Cheers, Fabian
>> > >
>> > > 2015-07-07 10:39 GMT+02:00 Till Rohrmann <[hidden email]>:
>> > >
>> > > > I also like the new feature page. I better conveys the strong
>> points of
>> > > > Flink, since it's more to the point.
>> > > >
>> > > > On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 6:09 PM, Stephan Ewen <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > Thanks Max!
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Did not even know we had a github mirror of the flink-web repo...
>> > > > >
>> > > > > On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 6:05 PM, Maximilian Michels <
>> [hidden email]>
>> > > > wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > Hi Stephan,
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Thanks for the feature page update. I think it is much more
>> > > informative
>> > > > > and
>> > > > > > better structured now.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > By the way, you could also open a pull request for your changes
>> on
>> > > > > > https://github.com/apache/flink-web/pulls
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Cheers,
>> > > > > > Max
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 3:28 PM, Fabian Hueske <
>> [hidden email]>
>> > > > wrote:
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > I'll be happy to help, eh draw ;-)
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > 2015-07-06 15:22 GMT+02:00 Stephan Ewen <[hidden email]>:
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > Hi all!
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > I think that the "Features" page of the website is a bit
>> out of
>> > > > date.
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > I made an effort to stub a new one. It is committed under "
>> > > > > > > features_new.md
>> > > > > > > > "
>> > > > > > > > and not yet built as an HTML page.
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > If you want to take a look and help building this, pull the
>> > > > flink-web
>> > > > > > git
>> > > > > > > > repository and build the website locally. You can then look
>> at
>> > it
>> > > > > > under "
>> > > > > > > > http://localhost:4000/index_new.html"
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > So far, I am happy with the new contents. Three things
>> remain
>> > to
>> > > be
>> > > > > > done:
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > 1) The page misses a figure on Streaming throughput and
>> > latency.
>> > > > > > > Currently,
>> > > > > > > > I am using a figure from some preliminary measurements made
>> by
>> > > > > Marton.
>> > > > > > > > IIRC, Robert is running some performance tests right now
>> and we
>> > > can
>> > > > > use
>> > > > > > > his
>> > > > > > > > results to create a new figure.
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > 2) The figures could use some love. The concept is good, but
>> > the
>> > > > > style
>> > > > > > > is a
>> > > > > > > > bit sterile. I was hoping that Fabian would help out with
>> his
>> > > > amazing
>> > > > > > > style
>> > > > > > > > of drawing figures ;-)
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > 3) More people should have a look and say if we should
>> replace
>> > > the
>> > > > > > > current
>> > > > > > > > "Features" page with this new one
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > Greetings,
>> > > > > > > > Stephan
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>>
>
>

[Aljoscha Krettek-2]

I would publish it, it is definitely better than the old one.

On Wed, 8 Jul 2015 at 11:32 Stephan Ewen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> So, what do we do with this now?
>
> On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 1:41 PM, Stephan Ewen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > +1 to adding links
> >
> > In fact, all points should link to some documentation part.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 1:33 PM, Gyula Fóra <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> I think the content is pretty good, much better than before. But the
> page
> >> structure could be better (and this is very important in my opinion).
> >> Now it just looks like a long list of features without any ways to
> >> navigate
> >> between them. We should probably have something at the top that
> summarizes
> >> the page.
> >>
> >> And maybe at the specific points we should add links to other pages (for
> >> instance internals pages).
> >>
> >> Stephan Ewen <[hidden email]> ezt írta (időpont: 2015. júl. 7., K,
> >> 13:22):
> >>
> >> > I actually put quite some thought into the structure of the points.
> They
> >> > reflect pretty much what I observed (meetups and talks) where people
> get
> >> > excited and what they are missing.
> >> >
> >> > The structure follows the line of through of "stream processor that
> also
> >> > does batch very well". And then separate the features as they
> >> contribute to
> >> > that.
> >> >
> >> > Intermixing features across their relation to streaming and batch has
> >> not
> >> > worked out for my presentations at all. It came across that Flink is a
> >> > system with a multitude of aspects, but no one in the audience could
> >> really
> >> > say what Flink is good at in the end, where it stands out.
> >> >
> >> > The proposed structure makes this very clear:
> >> >
> >> >   - Flink is a kick-ass stream processor     (Strongest
> differentiation
> >> > from all other technology)
> >> >   - Flink can also do batch very well          (It is broadly
> applicable
> >> > and strong)
> >> >   - It surfaces nice APIs and rich libraries  (Low entry hurdle)
> >> >   - It plays well with existing technology
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Stephan
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 12:22 PM, Fabian Hueske <[hidden email]>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > +1 for the clear and brief feature descriptions!
> >> > >
> >> > > I am not so sure about the structure of the points, especially
> >> separating
> >> > > "Streaming" and "Batch and Streaming in One System" does not support
> >> the
> >> > > message of a unified system, IMO.
> >> > >
> >> > > How about categorizing the points into three sections (Internals,
> API,
> >> > > Integration) and structuring the points for example as follows:
> >> > >
> >> > > -- High Performance, Robust Execution, and Fault-tolerance
> >> > > High performance
> >> > > Continuous Streaming Model with Flow Control
> >> > > Fault-tolerance via Lightweight Distributed Snapshots
> >> > > Memory Management
> >> > > Iterations and Delta Iterations
> >> > >
> >> > > -- Ease of use, APIs, and Clear Semantics
> >> > > One runtime for Streaming and Batch Processing
> >> > > Expressive APIs (Batch + Streaming)
> >> > > Exactly-once Semantics for Stateful Computations
> >> > > Program Optimizer
> >> > > Library Ecosystem
> >> > >
> >> > > -- Integration
> >> > > Broad Integration
> >> > >
> >> > > Cheers, Fabian
> >> > >
> >> > > 2015-07-07 10:39 GMT+02:00 Till Rohrmann <[hidden email]>:
> >> > >
> >> > > > I also like the new feature page. I better conveys the strong
> >> points of
> >> > > > Flink, since it's more to the point.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 6:09 PM, Stephan Ewen <[hidden email]>
> >> wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > > Thanks Max!
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Did not even know we had a github mirror of the flink-web
> repo...
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 6:05 PM, Maximilian Michels <
> >> [hidden email]>
> >> > > > wrote:
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > > Hi Stephan,
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > Thanks for the feature page update. I think it is much more
> >> > > informative
> >> > > > > and
> >> > > > > > better structured now.
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > By the way, you could also open a pull request for your
> changes
> >> on
> >> > > > > > https://github.com/apache/flink-web/pulls
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > Cheers,
> >> > > > > > Max
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 3:28 PM, Fabian Hueske <
> >> [hidden email]>
> >> > > > wrote:
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > I'll be happy to help, eh draw ;-)
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > 2015-07-06 15:22 GMT+02:00 Stephan Ewen <[hidden email]>:
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > Hi all!
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > I think that the "Features" page of the website is a bit
> >> out of
> >> > > > date.
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > I made an effort to stub a new one. It is committed under
> "
> >> > > > > > > features_new.md
> >> > > > > > > > "
> >> > > > > > > > and not yet built as an HTML page.
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > If you want to take a look and help building this, pull
> the
> >> > > > flink-web
> >> > > > > > git
> >> > > > > > > > repository and build the website locally. You can then
> look
> >> at
> >> > it
> >> > > > > > under "
> >> > > > > > > > http://localhost:4000/index_new.html"
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > So far, I am happy with the new contents. Three things
> >> remain
> >> > to
> >> > > be
> >> > > > > > done:
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > 1) The page misses a figure on Streaming throughput and
> >> > latency.
> >> > > > > > > Currently,
> >> > > > > > > > I am using a figure from some preliminary measurements
> made
> >> by
> >> > > > > Marton.
> >> > > > > > > > IIRC, Robert is running some performance tests right now
> >> and we
> >> > > can
> >> > > > > use
> >> > > > > > > his
> >> > > > > > > > results to create a new figure.
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > 2) The figures could use some love. The concept is good,
> but
> >> > the
> >> > > > > style
> >> > > > > > > is a
> >> > > > > > > > bit sterile. I was hoping that Fabian would help out with
> >> his
> >> > > > amazing
> >> > > > > > > style
> >> > > > > > > > of drawing figures ;-)
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > 3) More people should have a look and say if we should
> >> replace
> >> > > the
> >> > > > > > > current
> >> > > > > > > > "Features" page with this new one
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > Greetings,
> >> > > > > > > > Stephan
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
>

[mxm]

+1 for updating it. It is a great improvement and we can still change
details subsequently.

On Wed, Jul 8, 2015 at 11:32 AM, Aljoscha Krettek <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> I would publish it, it is definitely better than the old one.
>
> On Wed, 8 Jul 2015 at 11:32 Stephan Ewen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > So, what do we do with this now?
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 1:41 PM, Stephan Ewen <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > +1 to adding links
> > >
> > > In fact, all points should link to some documentation part.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 1:33 PM, Gyula Fóra <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > >
> > >> I think the content is pretty good, much better than before. But the
> > page
> > >> structure could be better (and this is very important in my opinion).
> > >> Now it just looks like a long list of features without any ways to
> > >> navigate
> > >> between them. We should probably have something at the top that
> > summarizes
> > >> the page.
> > >>
> > >> And maybe at the specific points we should add links to other pages
> (for
> > >> instance internals pages).
> > >>
> > >> Stephan Ewen <[hidden email]> ezt írta (időpont: 2015. júl. 7., K,
> > >> 13:22):
> > >>
> > >> > I actually put quite some thought into the structure of the points.
> > They
> > >> > reflect pretty much what I observed (meetups and talks) where people
> > get
> > >> > excited and what they are missing.
> > >> >
> > >> > The structure follows the line of through of "stream processor that
> > also
> > >> > does batch very well". And then separate the features as they
> > >> contribute to
> > >> > that.
> > >> >
> > >> > Intermixing features across their relation to streaming and batch
> has
> > >> not
> > >> > worked out for my presentations at all. It came across that Flink
> is a
> > >> > system with a multitude of aspects, but no one in the audience could
> > >> really
> > >> > say what Flink is good at in the end, where it stands out.
> > >> >
> > >> > The proposed structure makes this very clear:
> > >> >
> > >> >   - Flink is a kick-ass stream processor     (Strongest
> > differentiation
> > >> > from all other technology)
> > >> >   - Flink can also do batch very well          (It is broadly
> > applicable
> > >> > and strong)
> > >> >   - It surfaces nice APIs and rich libraries  (Low entry hurdle)
> > >> >   - It plays well with existing technology
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > Stephan
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 12:22 PM, Fabian Hueske <[hidden email]>
> > >> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > > +1 for the clear and brief feature descriptions!
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I am not so sure about the structure of the points, especially
> > >> separating
> > >> > > "Streaming" and "Batch and Streaming in One System" does not
> support
> > >> the
> > >> > > message of a unified system, IMO.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > How about categorizing the points into three sections (Internals,
> > API,
> > >> > > Integration) and structuring the points for example as follows:
> > >> > >
> > >> > > -- High Performance, Robust Execution, and Fault-tolerance
> > >> > > High performance
> > >> > > Continuous Streaming Model with Flow Control
> > >> > > Fault-tolerance via Lightweight Distributed Snapshots
> > >> > > Memory Management
> > >> > > Iterations and Delta Iterations
> > >> > >
> > >> > > -- Ease of use, APIs, and Clear Semantics
> > >> > > One runtime for Streaming and Batch Processing
> > >> > > Expressive APIs (Batch + Streaming)
> > >> > > Exactly-once Semantics for Stateful Computations
> > >> > > Program Optimizer
> > >> > > Library Ecosystem
> > >> > >
> > >> > > -- Integration
> > >> > > Broad Integration
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Cheers, Fabian
> > >> > >
> > >> > > 2015-07-07 10:39 GMT+02:00 Till Rohrmann <[hidden email]>:
> > >> > >
> > >> > > > I also like the new feature page. I better conveys the strong
> > >> points of
> > >> > > > Flink, since it's more to the point.
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 6:09 PM, Stephan Ewen <[hidden email]>
> > >> wrote:
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > > Thanks Max!
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > Did not even know we had a github mirror of the flink-web
> > repo...
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 6:05 PM, Maximilian Michels <
> > >> [hidden email]>
> > >> > > > wrote:
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > > Hi Stephan,
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > Thanks for the feature page update. I think it is much more
> > >> > > informative
> > >> > > > > and
> > >> > > > > > better structured now.
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > By the way, you could also open a pull request for your
> > changes
> > >> on
> > >> > > > > > https://github.com/apache/flink-web/pulls
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > Cheers,
> > >> > > > > > Max
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 3:28 PM, Fabian Hueske <
> > >> [hidden email]>
> > >> > > > wrote:
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > I'll be happy to help, eh draw ;-)
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > 2015-07-06 15:22 GMT+02:00 Stephan Ewen <[hidden email]
> >:
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > Hi all!
> > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > I think that the "Features" page of the website is a bit
> > >> out of
> > >> > > > date.
> > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > I made an effort to stub a new one. It is committed
> under
> > "
> > >> > > > > > > features_new.md
> > >> > > > > > > > "
> > >> > > > > > > > and not yet built as an HTML page.
> > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > If you want to take a look and help building this, pull
> > the
> > >> > > > flink-web
> > >> > > > > > git
> > >> > > > > > > > repository and build the website locally. You can then
> > look
> > >> at
> > >> > it
> > >> > > > > > under "
> > >> > > > > > > > http://localhost:4000/index_new.html"
> > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > So far, I am happy with the new contents. Three things
> > >> remain
> > >> > to
> > >> > > be
> > >> > > > > > done:
> > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > 1) The page misses a figure on Streaming throughput and
> > >> > latency.
> > >> > > > > > > Currently,
> > >> > > > > > > > I am using a figure from some preliminary measurements
> > made
> > >> by
> > >> > > > > Marton.
> > >> > > > > > > > IIRC, Robert is running some performance tests right now
> > >> and we
> > >> > > can
> > >> > > > > use
> > >> > > > > > > his
> > >> > > > > > > > results to create a new figure.
> > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > 2) The figures could use some love. The concept is good,
> > but
> > >> > the
> > >> > > > > style
> > >> > > > > > > is a
> > >> > > > > > > > bit sterile. I was hoping that Fabian would help out
> with
> > >> his
> > >> > > > amazing
> > >> > > > > > > style
> > >> > > > > > > > of drawing figures ;-)
> > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > 3) More people should have a look and say if we should
> > >> replace
> > >> > > the
> > >> > > > > > > current
> > >> > > > > > > > "Features" page with this new one
> > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > Greetings,
> > >> > > > > > > > Stephan
> > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > >
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> >
>

[Ufuk Celebi-2]

+1 to publish now.

On Wednesday, July 8, 2015, Maximilian Michels <[hidden email]> wrote:

> +1 for updating it. It is a great improvement and we can still change
> details subsequently.
>
> On Wed, Jul 8, 2015 at 11:32 AM, Aljoscha Krettek <[hidden email]
> <javascript:;>>
> wrote:
>
> > I would publish it, it is definitely better than the old one.
> >
> > On Wed, 8 Jul 2015 at 11:32 Stephan Ewen <[hidden email]
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >
> > > So, what do we do with this now?
> > >
> > > On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 1:41 PM, Stephan Ewen <[hidden email]
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > >
> > > > +1 to adding links
> > > >
> > > > In fact, all points should link to some documentation part.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 1:33 PM, Gyula Fóra <[hidden email]
> <javascript:;>>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> I think the content is pretty good, much better than before. But the
> > > page
> > > >> structure could be better (and this is very important in my
> opinion).
> > > >> Now it just looks like a long list of features without any ways to
> > > >> navigate
> > > >> between them. We should probably have something at the top that
> > > summarizes
> > > >> the page.
> > > >>
> > > >> And maybe at the specific points we should add links to other pages
> > (for
> > > >> instance internals pages).
> > > >>
> > > >> Stephan Ewen <[hidden email] <javascript:;>> ezt írta (időpont:
> 2015. júl. 7., K,
> > > >> 13:22):
> > > >>
> > > >> > I actually put quite some thought into the structure of the
> points.
> > > They
> > > >> > reflect pretty much what I observed (meetups and talks) where
> people
> > > get
> > > >> > excited and what they are missing.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > The structure follows the line of through of "stream processor
> that
> > > also
> > > >> > does batch very well". And then separate the features as they
> > > >> contribute to
> > > >> > that.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Intermixing features across their relation to streaming and batch
> > has
> > > >> not
> > > >> > worked out for my presentations at all. It came across that Flink
> > is a
> > > >> > system with a multitude of aspects, but no one in the audience
> could
> > > >> really
> > > >> > say what Flink is good at in the end, where it stands out.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > The proposed structure makes this very clear:
> > > >> >
> > > >> >   - Flink is a kick-ass stream processor     (Strongest
> > > differentiation
> > > >> > from all other technology)
> > > >> >   - Flink can also do batch very well          (It is broadly
> > > applicable
> > > >> > and strong)
> > > >> >   - It surfaces nice APIs and rich libraries  (Low entry hurdle)
> > > >> >   - It plays well with existing technology
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Stephan
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 12:22 PM, Fabian Hueske <[hidden email]
> <javascript:;>>
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > > +1 for the clear and brief feature descriptions!
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > I am not so sure about the structure of the points, especially
> > > >> separating
> > > >> > > "Streaming" and "Batch and Streaming in One System" does not
> > support
> > > >> the
> > > >> > > message of a unified system, IMO.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > How about categorizing the points into three sections
> (Internals,
> > > API,
> > > >> > > Integration) and structuring the points for example as follows:
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > -- High Performance, Robust Execution, and Fault-tolerance
> > > >> > > High performance
> > > >> > > Continuous Streaming Model with Flow Control
> > > >> > > Fault-tolerance via Lightweight Distributed Snapshots
> > > >> > > Memory Management
> > > >> > > Iterations and Delta Iterations
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > -- Ease of use, APIs, and Clear Semantics
> > > >> > > One runtime for Streaming and Batch Processing
> > > >> > > Expressive APIs (Batch + Streaming)
> > > >> > > Exactly-once Semantics for Stateful Computations
> > > >> > > Program Optimizer
> > > >> > > Library Ecosystem
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > -- Integration
> > > >> > > Broad Integration
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > Cheers, Fabian
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > 2015-07-07 10:39 GMT+02:00 Till Rohrmann <[hidden email]
> <javascript:;>>:
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > > I also like the new feature page. I better conveys the strong
> > > >> points of
> > > >> > > > Flink, since it's more to the point.
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > > On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 6:09 PM, Stephan Ewen <
> [hidden email] <javascript:;>>
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > > > Thanks Max!
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > > Did not even know we had a github mirror of the flink-web
> > > repo...
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > > On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 6:05 PM, Maximilian Michels <
> > > >> [hidden email] <javascript:;>>
> > > >> > > > wrote:
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > > > Hi Stephan,
> > > >> > > > > >
> > > >> > > > > > Thanks for the feature page update. I think it is much
> more
> > > >> > > informative
> > > >> > > > > and
> > > >> > > > > > better structured now.
> > > >> > > > > >
> > > >> > > > > > By the way, you could also open a pull request for your
> > > changes
> > > >> on
> > > >> > > > > > https://github.com/apache/flink-web/pulls
> > > >> > > > > >
> > > >> > > > > > Cheers,
> > > >> > > > > > Max
> > > >> > > > > >
> > > >> > > > > >
> > > >> > > > > > On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 3:28 PM, Fabian Hueske <
> > > >> [hidden email] <javascript:;>>
> > > >> > > > wrote:
> > > >> > > > > >
> > > >> > > > > > > I'll be happy to help, eh draw ;-)
> > > >> > > > > > >
> > > >> > > > > > > 2015-07-06 15:22 GMT+02:00 Stephan Ewen <
> [hidden email] <javascript:;>
> > >:
> > > >> > > > > > >
> > > >> > > > > > > > Hi all!
> > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > >> > > > > > > > I think that the "Features" page of the website is a
> bit
> > > >> out of
> > > >> > > > date.
> > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > >> > > > > > > > I made an effort to stub a new one. It is committed
> > under
> > > "
> > > >> > > > > > > features_new.md
> > > >> > > > > > > > "
> > > >> > > > > > > > and not yet built as an HTML page.
> > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > >> > > > > > > > If you want to take a look and help building this,
> pull
> > > the
> > > >> > > > flink-web
> > > >> > > > > > git
> > > >> > > > > > > > repository and build the website locally. You can then
> > > look
> > > >> at
> > > >> > it
> > > >> > > > > > under "
> > > >> > > > > > > > http://localhost:4000/index_new.html"
> > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > >> > > > > > > > So far, I am happy with the new contents. Three things
> > > >> remain
> > > >> > to
> > > >> > > be
> > > >> > > > > > done:
> > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > >> > > > > > > > 1) The page misses a figure on Streaming throughput
> and
> > > >> > latency.
> > > >> > > > > > > Currently,
> > > >> > > > > > > > I am using a figure from some preliminary measurements
> > > made
> > > >> by
> > > >> > > > > Marton.
> > > >> > > > > > > > IIRC, Robert is running some performance tests right
> now
> > > >> and we
> > > >> > > can
> > > >> > > > > use
> > > >> > > > > > > his
> > > >> > > > > > > > results to create a new figure.
> > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > >> > > > > > > > 2) The figures could use some love. The concept is
> good,
> > > but
> > > >> > the
> > > >> > > > > style
> > > >> > > > > > > is a
> > > >> > > > > > > > bit sterile. I was hoping that Fabian would help out
> > with
> > > >> his
> > > >> > > > amazing
> > > >> > > > > > > style
> > > >> > > > > > > > of drawing figures ;-)
> > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > >> > > > > > > > 3) More people should have a look and say if we should
> > > >> replace
> > > >> > > the
> > > >> > > > > > > current
> > > >> > > > > > > > "Features" page with this new one
> > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > >> > > > > > > > Greetings,
> > > >> > > > > > > > Stephan
> > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > >> > > > > > >
> > > >> > > > > >
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > >
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>