[DISCUSS] Voting from apache.org addresses
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[DISCUSS] Voting from apache.org addresses
 
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Hi,
I wanted to reach out primarily to the Flink's committers. I think whenever we cast a vote on a proposal, is it a FLIP, release candidate or any other proposal, we should use our apache.org email address. It is not an easy task to check if a person voting is a committer/PMC if we do not work with him/her on a daily basis. This is important for verifying if a vote is binding or not. Best, Dawid |
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Re: [DISCUSS] Voting from apache.org addresses
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Re: [DISCUSS] Voting from apache.org addresses
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Re: [DISCUSS] Voting from apache.org addresses
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Re: [DISCUSS] Voting from apache.org addresses
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Hi all, Sorry I think I was not clear enough on my initial e-mail. Let me first clarify two things and later on try to rephrase my initial suggestion.
What I meant is that if you are a committer/PMC please use an
apache.org address because then the person that summarizes the
votes can check in the apache directory if a person with that
address is a committer/PMC in flink project. Otherwise if a
committer uses a different address there is no way to check if
that person is a committer/PMC or not. It does not mean though
that if you vote from apache.org this vote is automatically
binding. It just allows us to check if it is. To elaborate on Xuefu's example. It's absolutely fine for you to
use an apache address for voting. I will still check if you are a
committer or not. But take me (or any other committer) for
example. If I use my non-apache address for a vote and the person
verifying the vote does not know me and my address, it is not easy
for that person to verify if I am a committer or not. Also it does not mean that other people are not allowed to vote. You can vote from other addresses, but those votes will be counted as non-binding. This does not change anything for non-committers/non-PMC. However if you are a committer and vote from non apache address your vote will be non-binding, because we cannot verify you are indeed a committer (we might don't know your other address). I agree the additional information (binding, non-binding) in a vote helps, but it still should be verified. People make mistakes. I hope this clears it up a bit. Best, Dawid On 04/12/2019 04:58, Dian Fu wrote:
Thanks Dawid for start this discussion. I have the same feeling with Xuefu and Jingsong. Besides that, according to the bylaws, for some kinds of votes, only the votes from active PMC members are binding, such as product release. So an email address doesn't help here. Even if a vote is from a Flink committer, it is still non-binding. Thanks, Dian在 2019年12月4日，上午10:37，Jingsong Lee [hidden email] 写道： Thanks Dawid for driving this discussion. +1 to Xuefu's viewpoint. I am not a Flink committer, but sometimes I use apache email address to send email. Another way is that we require the binding ticket to must contain "binding". Otherwise it must be a "non-binding" ticket. In this way, we can let lazy people continue voting without any suffix too. Best, Jingsong Lee On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 3:58 AM Xuefu Z [hidden email] wrote:Hi Dawid, Thanks for initiating this discussion. I understand the problem you described, but the solution might not work as having an apache.org email address doesn't necessary mean it's from a Flink committer. This certainly applies to me. It probably helps for the voters to identify themselves by specifying either "binding" or "non-binding", though I understand this cannot be enforced but serves a general guideline. Thanks, Xuefu On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 6:15 AM Dawid Wysakowicz [hidden email] wrote:Hi, I wanted to reach out primarily to the Flink's committers. I think whenever we cast a vote on a proposal, is it a FLIP, release candidate or any other proposal, we should use our apache.org email address. It is not an easy task to check if a person voting is a committer/PMC if we do not work with him/her on a daily basis. This is important for verifying if a vote is binding or not. Best, Dawid-- Xuefu Zhang "In Honey We Trust!"-- Best, Jingsong Lee |
Re: [DISCUSS] Voting from apache.org addresses
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Re: [DISCUSS] Voting from apache.org addresses
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Re: [DISCUSS] Voting from apache.org addresses
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Re: [DISCUSS] Voting from apache.org addresses
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Re: [DISCUSS] Voting from apache.org addresses
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Hi Dian,
I don't want to be very strict, but I think it should be counted as non-binding, if it comes from non apache address, yes. Anybody should be able to verify a vote. Moreover I think this the only way to "encourage" all committers to use their apache addresses ;) Best, Dawid On 04/12/2019 10:26, Dian Fu wrote: > Thanks for your explanation Dawid! It makes sense to me now. +1. > > Just one minor question: Does this mean that if a committer/PMC accidentally votes using the non apache email, even if the person who summarizes the votes clearly KNOWS who he/she is, that vote will still be counted as non-binding? > > Regards, > Dian > >> 在 2019年12月4日，下午5:13，Aljoscha Krettek <[hidden email]> 写道： >> >> Very sensible! +1 >> >>> On 4. Dec 2019, at 10:02, Chesnay Schepler <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> >>> I believe this to be a sensible approach by Dawid; +1. >>> >>> On 04/12/2019 09:04, Dawid Wysakowicz wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> Sorry I think I was not clear enough on my initial e-mail. Let me first clarify two things and later on try to rephrase my initial suggestion. >>>> >>>> 1. I do not want to count all votes from @apache.org addresses as binding >>>> 2. I do not want to discourage people that do not have @apache.org >>>> address from voting >>>> 3. What I said does not change anything for non-committers/non-PMCs >>>> >>>> What I meant is that if you are a committer/PMC please use an apache.org address because then the person that summarizes the votes can check in the apache directory if a person with that address is a committer/PMC in flink project. Otherwise if a committer uses a different address there is no way to check if that person is a committer/PMC or not. It does not mean though that if you vote from apache.org this vote is automatically binding. It just allows us to check if it is. >>>> >>>> To elaborate on Xuefu's example. It's absolutely fine for you to use an apache address for voting. I will still check if you are a committer or not. But take me (or any other committer) for example. If I use my non-apache address for a vote and the person verifying the vote does not know me and my address, it is not easy for that person to verify if I am a committer or not. >>>> >>>> Also it does not mean that other people are not allowed to vote. You can vote from other addresses, but those votes will be counted as non-binding. This does not change anything for non-committers/non-PMC. However if you are a committer and vote from non apache address your vote will be non-binding, because we cannot verify you are indeed a committer (we might don't know your other address). >>>> >>>> I agree the additional information (binding, non-binding) in a vote helps, but it still should be verified. People make mistakes. >>>> >>>> I hope this clears it up a bit. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Dawid >>>> >>>> On 04/12/2019 04:58, Dian Fu wrote: >>>>> Thanks Dawid for start this discussion. >>>>> >>>>> I have the same feeling with Xuefu and Jingsong. Besides that, according to the bylaws, for some kinds of votes, only the votes from active PMC members are binding, such as product release. So an email address doesn't help here. Even if a vote is from a Flink committer, it is still non-binding. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Dian >>>>> >>>>>> 在 2019年12月4日，上午10:37，Jingsong Lee<[hidden email]> 写道： >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks Dawid for driving this discussion. >>>>>> >>>>>> +1 to Xuefu's viewpoint. >>>>>> I am not a Flink committer, but sometimes I use apache email address to >>>>>> send email. >>>>>> >>>>>> Another way is that we require the binding ticket to must contain "binding". >>>>>> Otherwise it must be a "non-binding" ticket. >>>>>> In this way, we can let lazy people continue voting without any suffix too. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> Jingsong Lee >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 3:58 AM Xuefu Z<[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Dawid, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks for initiating this discussion. I understand the problem you >>>>>>> described, but the solution might not work as having an apache.org email >>>>>>> address doesn't necessary mean it's from a Flink committer. This certainly >>>>>>> applies to me. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It probably helps for the voters to identify themselves by specifying >>>>>>> either "binding" or "non-binding", though I understand this cannot be >>>>>>> enforced but serves a general guideline. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> Xuefu >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 6:15 AM Dawid Wysakowicz<[hidden email]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I wanted to reach out primarily to the Flink's committers. I think >>>>>>>> whenever we cast a vote on a proposal, is it a FLIP, release candidate >>>>>>>> or any other proposal, we should use our apache.org email address. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It is not an easy task to check if a person voting is a committer/PMC if >>>>>>>> we do not work with him/her on a daily basis. This is important for >>>>>>>> verifying if a vote is binding or not. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dawid >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Xuefu Zhang >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "In Honey We Trust!" >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Best, Jingsong Lee >>> |
Re: [DISCUSS] Voting from apache.org addresses
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Re: [DISCUSS] Voting from apache.org addresses
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Re: [DISCUSS] Voting from apache.org addresses
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Re: [DISCUSS] Voting from apache.org addresses
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